Thursday, August 30, 2012

My ‘TVB Rant’ # 22: A Salute to Under-rated, Under-appreciated ‘Green Leaf’ Artists Everywhere!

There’s a saying that goes something like this: “A peony flower may be good in and of itself, but still requires its green leaves to support it.”

I was on Weibo the other day and came across the below post where HKChannel 'pays tribute' to TVB's "Green Leaf Veteran Artists" -- basically those supporting and 'less than supporting' actors / actresses whose names most audiences probably can't recite if their lives depended on it, but whose faces they will instantly recognize (well, the audiences who consistently watch TVB series that is).

As I'm sure audiences who value acting prowess over superficial looks will tell you, 'green leaf' artists are absolutely essential to a series because, well, most of the time, these artists are the ones with the acting skills as well as the experience, which is why many times, they actually end up "carrying" the series that they participate in. This has especially been true in the past decade or so as most of TVB's talented siu sangs and fadans from the 80s and 90s started leaving the nest one by one and a newer generation of 'less talented' artists rose up to take their places.

Now I know what most people are going to say -- very few people are born with natural acting talent and even the most talented of artists started off as a 'newbie' at one point, slowly building up their skills and experiences to become the 'superstars' that they are today. True, not everyone is born with the talent, but there has got to be a reason (or multiple reasons) why so many of the artists who came out of the previous generations (70s/80s/early 90s) are so much better in terms of acting skill than the newer / current generation. Aside from the rare group of artists who truly were 'born to be actors', for the others, I personally feel that one of the "reasons" has to do with the 'cultivation' of talent....

One of the things that TVB did a relatively decent job at in past generations (70s/80s/early 90s) compared to now is that back then, TVB truly did focus on 'cultivating' talent -- the management team as well as the producers back then not only had a good eye for talent (meaning they were pretty 'spot on' when it came to identifying future potential stars), they also focused alot on making sure that 'talent' was properly cultivated and channeled through acting classes as well as other means (such as casting the artists in roles that had good opportunity for development, etc.) -- of course, the artists themselves had to have some amount of skill already and be willing to work hard at mastering their craft (plus most important is having an open mind and willing to learn from others), but the 'sound' mentorship that they received along the way (whether it was from certain producers, senior artists, or even certain management) definitely helped shape their career in one way or another.

Once the late 90s / early 2000s started kicking in and the management (as well as some of the critical 'mentors' who were instrumental in shaping the artists careers in the past, such as King Sir or some of the early producers) started to leave the company, the shift in quality really started to become apparent. The newer management that took over was no where near the competence level that the previous management (and ‘founding fathers’ so to speak) were at and in all honesty, the new management did a ‘horrible’ job at maintaining the ‘good name’ that the previous generations had established. The focus shifted from a united common goal of ‘cultivating talent for talent’s sake’ to a more political and greed-driven ‘every man for himself’ type mentality where it became more important for the company to make tons of money and dominate the market rather than foster growth and development of the industry as a whole. I guess you could also say that the overall goal went from an audience-oriented, genuine desire to produce quality series and cultivate talented actors/actresses for the benefit of the HK entertainment industry to a more selfish desire of wanting to satisfy one’s own greed and hunger for power.

As a result, many of the veteran artists who had helped to make TVB the powerhouse it is today (most of whom have been around since the 80s, some even since the 70s) were tossed by the wayside – pretty much treated as inferior, ‘second-class citizens’ by TVB because they no longer have the ability to ‘rake in the dough’ for the company that they did back in the old days. Sure, part of the blame can be placed on the fickle tastes of an audience that generally cares more about beauty / looks than acting talent (I’m sure that’s what TVB’s ‘defense’ would be), but that doesn’t exonerate TVB from their actions.

In the past year or so, there was a mini ‘revolution’ of sorts when a long line of talented veteran ‘green leaf’ actors / actresses decided to leave TVB and join rival television stations (mostly CTI and nowTV). As the saying goes, ‘when you lose something, you start to cherish it more’ – well, that saying applies in this case as well because as news of more and more artists leaving surfaced week after week, it seems that many audiences are finally learning to ‘appreciate’ the value that these artists contributed to their series-viewing experience. Hence, there are Weibo posts such as the below where artists whom audiences probably never even paid attention to in the past are finally getting their ’15 minutes’ of fame now.

Since I’m one of those ‘non-mainstream’ audience members who value acting skills over looks, I’ve always been one to pay more attention to the ‘green leaf’ artists in a series than to the main leads. This has been especially true for the newer series I’ve watched from the last 15 years or so, since in majority of these series, many of the leads lack acting skill and some of their performances are usually nothing to shout about – I usually enjoy the performances from the supporting cast more than I do the main leads. Audiences like me are in the minority though, so whenever I’m able to help give more ‘recognition’ to these normally under-appreciated artists, I am more than willing to do so (especially since we all know that TVB isn’t going to do it!). My opinion might not be worth much, but that’s okay – just doing my part to show appreciation for people who I feel deserve to be appreciated and recognized.

So I would like to conclude this post by saying…..

To ALL the HK ‘green leaf’ / veteran artists out there: THANK YOU for making my television-viewing experience so pleasurable! I appreciate the years of hard work that you’ve devoted to the industry and the numerous memorable performances you’ve given to audiences like me! No matter which company you decide to work for, I’m confident that you will continue to keep up the great work! I SALUTE you and SUPPORT you!!

Source:  HK Channel's Weibo (read detailed article here:  Green Leaf Artists)

**NOTE:  This is NOT an all-inclusive list -- only a few 'green leaf' artists who have been in a few of this year's series were mentioned...there are definitely ALOT more artists who would fall into the veteran green leaf category but were not mentioned in the article below.

Pictures credited as listed


  1. wow, great tribute. thanks for posting it up. no series would be successful without the efforts of these wonderfully talented actors and actresses. it's great we can finally get to know their names.

    all these faces are familiar to me except one - 阮毅雄. i don't recognise him at all! i feel so guilty for never noticing him even though it says he's been in over 40 series as a cabbie. will definitely keep a look out for him next time.

    1. @bebeC: So true! It's sad that most audiences take the supporting actors/actresses for granted, but unfortunately, that's the harsh reality of HK television. Most audiences pay attention to what the main, popular artists go through but pretty much ignore the plight of the supporting / green leaf artists. Just a few examples from some of the artists in the below many people know that actor Chan Wing Chun's (the 5th artist down in the pics below) wife of several decades died last year and he went through a difficult time of mourning? Probably not that many. And actor Wah Chung Nam (15th one down, the big guy with the mustache and glasses) had a stroke a few months ago and was in a coma for quite some time (he's still not fully recovered yet)....

      Regarding Yuan Ngai Hung (the taxi driver guy) -- oh, you don't recognize him? Really? I see him in almost every series...LOL! I was actually wondering why TVB made him be a taxi driver in like every single series cuz after like the 20th time seeing him in different series, I was like -- whoa, that can't be a coincidence! Well, now it makes sense --he's a taxi driver in real life! So TVB figured they might as well just have him participate in a few scenes here and there on his breaks and such -- good way for him to earn some extra cash...LOL....

    2. Great post. I actually recognize most of them too. As for Yuan Ngai Hung (the taxi driver guy), there's these threads on him opened about the same time on AF, and baidu about him being an omnipresent taxi driver in tvb series, and that he is a tax driver in real life. Baidu thread even documented the series he was in with screencaps.

    3. @tamaya: Wow, the Baidu info is pretty thorough! Thanks for posting the link!

      Can't believe someone went to the lengths to keep track like that, especially since Yuan Ngai Hung was in SO MANY series (I sort of lost count a long time ago -- all I know is that I see him in practically all modern series).

  2. Hi LL, it me kk (hope u still remember me *teary icon* lol) haven't talk to u in such a longgggggggggg time, miss u so much lol, as cheezy as it sound lol. so how are u? hope everything is fined w/ u. but u seem so full of energy lately cuz of the amount of articles u translated recently lol. u totally deserve the title we gave u a while back "The Critique" hehe.

    1. @kk: LOL...of course I remember you! Yes, it's definitely been awhile since we last talked....thanks for stopping by...hope to continue hearing from you often!

      Haha...nah, it's not really that I've been full of energy, it's just that I had pockets of time here and there and there happened to be quite a few articles that I felt were really important to share. And as always, of course I continue to give my 'constructive criticism' of TVB....I don't think I'll ever stop doing that, since they'll probably never improve to the point that would suit my liking....LOL...

    2. Ha! llwy12, Didn't know you were nicknamed The Critique, to me she is more like TVB Archive or TVB Encyclopedia (well, at least the early periods).

    3. haha, we decided to called LL The Critique after her awesome TVB rants lol. but i think TVB Archive or TVB Encyclopedia is fined too. it depends on the situation actually lol. when it comes to TVB rants LL is TVB Critique, but when it comes to TVB artists and series, LL is definitely TVB Archive, then anything TVB related like TVB politics LL is TVB Encyclopedia lol. LL is such a talented gal, i salute to u LL hehe.

    4. @tamaya: LOL...thanks for the compliments! Though to be honest, I probably don't qualify for either, since I really don't know as much as people think I do (well, not by memory anyway...) I guess the credit should really go to the decades of 'collecting' that I've done on stuff related to HK entertainment (so being a 'pack rat' in this case isn't necessarily a bad thing? Haha...) plus decent organization skills that help me find stuff when I need it (though depending on the situation, sometimes even I'm too lazy to go dig for the information...LOL). :o)

      @kk: LOL...I was actually trying to remember that conversation about being called 'the critique' that you mention the TVB rants, the conversation is slowly coming back to me...haha....anyway, I'm glad you enjoy the rants -- though my intent on doing them is mostly just to release some frustrations that I've come across, it's encouraging to see that others enjoy reading them! :-)

  3. gosh, i can't believe i just lost everything i just typed in cuz of one stupid computer mistake lol, ok, i'm typing my comment again lol.

    i don't know how is that for others but for me from late 2000s until now, i mostly watched tvb series b/c of veterans actors, those popular and so not popular green leaf artists. maybe it just me but the new generation siu sangs and fadans just don't have enough charisma and the certain level of acting to keep me through a series, i don't absolutely despite them, but they just aren't good enough to carry a whole series especially those big budget production, maybe that why tvb rather beg to have a bunch of old but more experienced siu sangs and fadans to go back to film war and beauty 2 than casting the new fadans. i think tvb did recognize this problem, that why they never let those "kids" alone in a series, there always had to be at least one or two more popular but older veterans or siu sangs and fandans in a series w/ them. i mean look at moonlight resonance and heart of greed, sure a bunch of siu sangs and fadans become more popular after that, but i'm sure the series would be nothing w/o louisa lee, ha yu, or michelle yim, etc...another veteran green leaf artist that i totally forgot to mention was chan hung lit, i think it was a big loss for tvb when he passed away. he always play a rich powerful businessman so convincing that i can't think of anybody else who could fill his shoes when he left, i mean the guy was born to play that kind of roles so well. anyway, i'm glad that many of the less recognizable green leaf artists decide to leave tvb and work for CTI, at least for the moment cti would treat them better and "treasure" them more, in the future who knows, there is just something about this ricky wong guy that bother me lol.

    1. @kk: Oh no -- you lost everything you typed?  I hate it when that happens....thank you for going to the trouble of retyping your comment! :-)

      To be honest, that's one of the main reasons why I continued to watch TVB series after the year 2000 as well (though in addition to the veteran artists, there ARE a few of the younger generation artists that I DO like....of course, not as many as the 80s/90s artists....).  With that said though, I definitely don't watch TVB series as "religiously" as I used to (meaning that I used to watch every single series that came out -- in its entirety -- and in many cases, I would re-watch the series multiple times)....nowadays, I can barely sit through the first few episodes of a series and there are very few that I actually watch entirely from beginning to end....just to put things in perspective -- out of the 25 or so series that TVB airs every year, nowadays I only watch probably 5 or so in its entirety....

      In terms of having veteran actors return to film series because TVB recognizes that their own "kids" just can't cut it by themselves -- this has been a 'strategy' of TVB's for years already, though I would venture to say that the reason they do this isn't purely because they know their own kids can't carry a series by themselves....the other reason (a reason that I hate them for) is because they want to "use" the good names that these veteran artists had built up over the years to help them (TVB) "promote" their own kids...this is why I get so ticked whenever I hear about how badly TVB treats these veteran artists -- it's almost like they squeeze the veteran artists dry and when these artists no longer have any 'value' that TVB can use to its advantage anymore, they throw them by the wayside....and the other thing that annoys me is how TVB always 'talks' about their kids (the younger generation ones that are very popular right now) as though they're the next best thing since sliced bread and brag about how hard they worked to get to where they are now -- um, sorry, but most of them didn't get popular because of their skills...most of their current 'popular' artists got to where they're at now mostly because 1) they're considered 'eye candy' and they're just lucky that many of today's audiences don't know how to appreciate talent and would rather choose to watch someone who is good-looking over someone who can act; and 2) they do a good job 'kissing up' to certain management (especially the executive who holds the fate of all the artists in her hands)...

    2. @kk: OMG, Chan Hung Lit!  I always feel like crying whenever his name is mentioned because he was such a great actor who didn't deserve to die before his time!  I've watched so many of his series -- not just HK ones, but a few Taiwan ones as well -- and he is absolutely excellent in practically all of them....even in the series when he is given mediocre roles (in his last work When Heaven Burns for example), he always manages to apply his own unique style to the role and make the character memorable in some way....I definitely miss him and his great acting!

      I'm also glad so many of the veterans went to CTI because to be honest, what's the point of staying with a company that treats them like dirt?  I mean, for some of them to not get any pay raise for like nearly 2 decades (while artists who have less skill than them are already making enough money to buy several mansions) and then for TVB to completely 'forget' about them by allowing their contracts to expire without even contacting them about renewing...that's just so wrong (though that probably doesn't piss me off as much as TVB forcing these artists to 'pay a fine' for not having enough shows and thereby not fulfilling their contractual obligations when it's actually TVB that controls how many 'shows' these artists, shouldn't this be 'illegal'?  I can't believe that those lame executives in their management team haven't been arrested by now for those types of actions!

    3. @LL: well i like some of the new gen. artists too, but the problem is they aren't heavily or not being promoted by tvb at all, always get me fired up every time i talked about underrated second line artists at tvb lol. meanwhile tvb keep promoting the same faces who aren't getting any better, i don't expect new siu sangs and fadans to be good right at their first or second series but after 10 or so and they still who they were or has gotten worse, tvb should demoted them to second line artists for them to get some experienced, but i was in a dream land for few seconds when i said that so forgive me for saying that LOL.

      let see about those new gen.:
      Faux TVB Queen acting is going backward, Sausage lips isn't going anywhere, Pinocchio nose acting is basically at stop sign, Neway tai tai is well just being cute and herself, Jaynestars writer's Goddess is getting better but still not enough charisma or enough good acting skill to carry a series by herself. Chok boy is too busy w/ singing and movies that his television acting isn't that interesting anymore or maybe cuz of his recently crappy roles lol, Mainland milk cow's ex is wooden as ever, Faux TVB Queen's ex acting is getting more boring as he aged lol.
      well i'm glad that they decided to give Ma Ming more chance and he's more popular now. after watching Gun Metal Gray, i think Vincent really has potential he also tall and good looking too. Him Law isn't bad either.

      talking about tvb using veterans, for some reason i immediately think of Paul Cheung, John Chiang, Louisa So, and Kara Hui. i'm glad that John chiang is jumping the ship since he deserved so much more than those crappy roles tvb has given him. the one veteran artist that i'm angry the most for is probably Louisa So, look what they've done to her throughout the years, they either put her in low budget production or given her crappy roles. Phoenix Rising can really pump up her career, which tvb put down as a warehouse series. that was such a great series, all actors from Sunny, Kristal, Leila, Louisa, and Jacky were so good, they were perfect for their characters. and then kara hui, tvb constantly gave her crappy roles, even worse than Louisa's, those kind of roles that really below her standard and ability. i can just go on and on about other underrated veterans too. but bottom line is i think that whatever crappy roles or "demoted" roles tvb given to these veterans, they always make the best of it, that why i think i normally pay attention more to them whenever they act together w/ those kids lol.

    4. lol LL when u mentioned some artist good at kissing up, right the way i think of the "golden" couple in Forensic Heroes 2, those two really ruined FH2 for me, i was so looking to Bobby and Yoyo relationship along w/ a new possible romantic relationship for Frankie. but dame them, what they done was having those police characters in the series constantly kissed up to the new madame, i mean some of the scenes really make me wonder if the writers had any shame lol. gosh, then there come Ms. Snake trying too hard to be a cool madame like Yoyo, in many scenes all she did was "strike a pose" for "cool" positions like a model doing photo shoot for a magazine. honestly, i'm not a big fan of yoyo's acting, but she just perfect as a madame and her acting was pretty good in FH1. anyway, i can see that i'm rambling again haha, when it comes to tvb being unfair to more talented actors, i can't shut up lol.

      talking about Chan Hung Lit, wasn't he also in Justice Pao the Taiwanese version? he was so good at the bad guy, which he mostly portray in that version lol.
      i just remember another popular veteran artist, Yuen Wah, he isn't only good at kungfu (obviously lol), but he such a great comedian too. what look what happen lately to him at tvb, they didn't even bother to renew a contract w/ him right?
      gosh, i didn't know that tvb mangement team that horrible???? gosh, arrest 620 first lol. oh i have a question about this woman, i don't understand the situation w/ her, her reputation probably kinda ruined by now since we all know who she really is, but why is that tvb still keep her? as a scapegoat? or she came from a powerful and rich family?

    5. @kk: Hahaha! Your post about the newer artists really cracked me up…definitely got a good laugh from your comments! I’m actually not going to respond to the newer artists piece specifically though, primarily because I don’t feel like dealing with the wrath of those artists’ fans at the moment…LOL. Anyway, definitely agree that there are a lot of underrated second line artists out there who deserve to be promoted but aren’t (Nancy Wu comes to mind right away). As for TVB ‘demoting’ artists to second line if it’s obvious they aren’t improving after 10 years – haha…of course that’s never going to happen because then they would need to ‘demote’ almost all of their siu sangs and fa dans, since pretty much all of the current ones fall into this category (in fact, that’s one of TVB’s biggest ‘faults’ – they typecast artists to the point that their careers become stagnant and after 7 to 8 years of playing the same types of roles, the artists either remain where they are in terms of the acting or they regress and become worse.

      As for the veteran artists you mentioned – yup, agree that those artists were definitely being ‘used’. Since I’ve already talked about pretty much each person you mentioned, just wanted to make a quick comment about Kara Hui…totally sad the way she is treated at TVB. I mean, she’s a 7 time Best Actress in the film industry, a very talented woman who started in acting decades ago and won her first Best Actress award when most of the current generation were still in diapers, yet she is still relegated to only 3rd or 4th line supporting roles at TVB. The part the frustrates me is that TVB wasn’t shy about ‘using’ Kara’s 7 time Best Actress status for their own gain – I mean, the year that Kara won (I think it was 2010?), how many times did TVB mention the Best Actress thing every time Kara’s name was brought up? Also, remember the ‘big deal’ that TVB made when they did their contract-signing ceremony with Kara? If I remember correctly, all of her awards were placed on display and there was this whole commotion about the ‘7 time Best Actress’ renewing her contract with TVB! (Um, since then, I haven’t seen Kara in any TVB series, so it’s hard for me not to think that somehow, that contract signing ceremony was all for show….)

    6. @kk: Please don’t get me started on FH2 because it’s going to get me ticked off all over again! The original FH was one of my favorite series from the ‘after 2000s’ era (since I didn’t like majority of the series from that era, it’s rare for me to have a few that I would call ‘favorites’) – I loved the chemistry of the cast in the original series and the cases were all quite interesting. But then TVB had to go ruin things with that horrible excuse of a sequel (FH2) where most of the characters that I came to know and love in the original were reduced to ‘supporting’ characters in order to make way for 2006’s TV King and Queen to ‘lead’ the series (which, btw, was stupid because I really felt their characters were not necessary – the storyline involving the two of them didn’t even make sense and was very sloppily put together….(ok, I should probably stop with my rant now…haha).

      Yup, Chan Hung Lit almost always played the villain, though there were those rare instances where he played a good guy – either way though, he was always excellent in terms of his acting. I actually didn’t realize he had been in so many TVB series in the 90s until later on when I re-watched them and recognized him in them (too bad that his voice was dubbed in almost all of them though)…

      Yes, Yuen Wah was another great actor who TVB pretty much ‘ignored’ – his comedy roles are excellent, but his villain roles as well as his ‘serious’ roles aren’t bad either…in fact, in some of the series he was in, I enjoyed his performance more than that of the leads (FH3 for example – I liked his character the most out of the entire cast). Even though Yuen Wah signed with CTI already, I have yet to see him as part of the cast list for the 6 series that have already been announced….I wonder when he will actually start filming for CTI? Hopefully soon!

      Haha…don’t get me started on 620 because I could probably go on forever…LOL. Personally, I could care less what type of family she came from – all I know is that she is the worst manager and if I were Mona Fong, I would never have hired her in the first place (though that’s wishful thinking because if I recall correctly, 620 worked with Mona Fong before and she was one of her ‘favorites’, which is why MF pulled her into the company when she officially took over in 2003). I have a feeling that TVB (meaning the new chairman Charles Chan) continues to keep 620 because there is no one else willing to take on that job – especially now that audiences are not as ‘ignorant’ as they were before and plus with all the ‘dirt’ that has been revealed about TVB’s messed up internal policies (majority of it came out during the Stephen Chan corruption trial)….also, he most likely doesn’t want to ‘rock the boat’ right now (given the impending TV war) by making any drastic changes like firing a high level exec. Besides, you never know what he (and the rest of TVB’s management) might be thinking – heck, they might even feel that 620 is an excellent manager so of course they are not going to fire her (the new vice-chairman Norman Leung basically ‘hinted’ at this earlier back during the time a few months ago when criticism of 620 was at its highest – he pretty much blamed TVB’s lack of sufficient resources rather than 620’s management skills…)

  4. i remember watching those tvb series in the 80's and 90's, i don't see those veteran green leaf artists anywhere from the end of 90's til now. LL, it would be nice if you can do a segment on your blog to give us some information one those green leaf artists. i really want to know what happen to them but since i can't read chinese, it so hard for me to find some information on them. if i'm not mistaking, didn't chan wing chun used to played second lead to michael miu in the 80's version of the new advantures of chor lau heung? it sad how he's more like an extras in recent tvb series.
    oh another thing LL, can you please tell me what happen to those veteran actors in the 90's version of Demi Gods and Semi Devils, Felix Wong was in it. in this series, the guy that played benny chan's father, where's he now? and also those ladies that played his wives?
    also, tony leung's version of The two honorable knights, what happen to the guy that play his twins? oh, also the evil lady who loved tony's dad but the dad ended up running away w/ the servant, what happen to her? she was also played flora chan's sister in untraceable evidence. she always looks so classy to me though she was so evil in honorable knights lol

    can you please post the picture next to them too when u talk about them so that i can know exactly who they are. thank you so much ll, sorry that i request too much lol. gosh, after this you gonna hate me for bothering you too much aren't u? LOL

    1. @kk: Really?  Then maybe you haven't really been paying attention...LOL...many of these veteran artists have been in TVB series since the 80s, it's just that most of them had insignificant roles (the sad thing is that many of them continue to have insignificant roles, even now, almost 3 decades later...).

      I would love nothing more than to do a segment about veteran green leaf artists, but unfortunately, I've got time constraints that make it difficult for me to get to everything that I have on my 'wish list' in terms of things I'd like to share on my blog.  Though I do try to put up posts related to veteran artists (not just green leaf artists, but main artists as well) and series from the 80s and 90s whenever I can, the reality is that there is still ALOT of stuff that I have that I just haven't gotten around to translating / writing up yet.  Hopefully I'll be able to get as much of the stuff out as I can, slowly but surely....

      With that said though, whenever people ask me about particular veteran artists from the 80s / 90s and I happen to be familiar with the artist (which, if the artist came out of the 80s/90s, I most likely will remember something about them), I try to answer as much about them as I can, especially since I know that there is so little information out there about many of these artists.  So if there are any artists in particular that you want to know about, feel free to ask me and I'll try to answer if I can (I won't necessarily know about every artist, but I'll try my best to share what whatever I know...).

    2. @kk:  Yes, you're right about Chan Wing Chun -- his most famous role was as Wu Tiet Fa in the 1984 version of Chor Lau Heung (the one with Michael Miu and Barbara Yung).  I would definitely consider him 'second male lead' in that series and I must say that he was excellent in his portrayal of the character.  Chan Wing Chun had a lot better roles back in the's sad that most of his roles in recent years have sucked big time....he's been reduced to playing a 'ke le fe' (extra) most of the time, which is such a waste of talent -- though he's actually not the only one....veteran actor Deno Cheung actually complained about this in recent interviews and it was actually one of the biggest reasons why he left TVB (that plus the no pay raise for close to 2 decades thing...).

      Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), I haven't watched the 1997 version of Demi Gods (since I can't stand most of the JY remakes from the 90s and 2000s) so I probably won't be much help in terms of those veteran actors -- I know you can't read Chinese, but if you happen to know their names or have a picture of them, I can still probably help find some information on them though....

      In terms of The Two Most Honorable Knights -- I've seen that series multiple times, so I can definitely provide you some insight on that (LOL)....the guy who played Tony's twin was Hugo Ng (mighty good actor by the way) -- he's actually still active in the industry, just not in HK....he moved his career to Mainland China years ago and is still filming series over there even now.  He and former actress Lily Chung married back in the 90s and they have a son (not sure if you're familiar with Lily Chun Suk Wai -- she was a former pageant winner from the 80s....she wasn't in very many TVB series and most of her roles were like 3rd or 4th line characters....probably her most significant role was in The Link where she played Amy Kwok's younger sister -- well, that's the series that I remember her most in...).

      The actress you're talking about from Most Honorable Knights as well as Untraceable Evidence (she was in tons of TVB series, but her other more famous role was as Kenix Kwok's older sister in the first 3 DIF installments) is Maggie Chan Mei Kei.  She's another great actress whom I grew up watching and like a lot!  She actually 'retired' from the industry awhile back ago and currently lives in Shanghai with her second husband and his children.  She does a lot of charity work and such, but so far, she's not too interested in returning to the industry....she's happy taking care of her family...and yes, she is a very classy lady in real life (which is probably why she gives off that 'classy' vibe in alot of her series)...she's another one of those rare former artists who actually continued her education after she left the industry (she actually has a Masters in Business Adminstration now...very impressive!)

      Sorry, but I'm actually not posting from my regular computer, so sort of difficult to post pictures....

    3. yes LL, i did pay attention lol, but u gotta admit some of the more recognizable green leaf artist like Maggie Chan were actually missing. like the veteran that passed away recently Wong Wai, i remembered him from 90's ancient series, that man was great, like Chan Hung Lit he usually played powerful man.
      oh, do u remember Return of condor heroes 1983 version? do u know who's the lady played Wong Yung? i actually like her older version of Wong Yung the most.

      oh, here's the link to Demi Gods:
      i'm very sorry that i have to give u this link instead of just list the names for u, my problem is that i don't even know those character names in chinese too lol.but u already watched the 80's version, so i guess u will be able to recognize some of the name of those wives?
      i do know that Carman lee played two roles as daughter and mother, but i can't stand her character lol. i can only accept her in the return of condor heroes 90's version, other than that, her acting is such a pain to watch lol.
      i like Honorable knights 80's version too, for me it was like the best version, the new versions just ruined everything for me, those stupid mainland china production lol. gosh, Hugo Ng was so handsome hehe.

      and wow for Maggie Chan, not only classy but also educated too, rare gem in the entertainment industry lol.

      oh, what i mean when i said posting pictures for each veteran artist was like from now on when u happen to have time to write an article on veterans actors, it would be nice if u have their pix next to the names, like the articles above, not neccessary respond to my request for the above post lol. anyway, i'm already glad that u bring up this topic so that i can have the chance to vent my frustration lol

    4. @kk: I'm working on the response to your other questions...but one thing I did want to say...

      Interesting you mentioned Wong Wai and Chan Hung Lit -- actually, talking about ancient series, I'm currently re-watching the 1996 TVB version of State of Divinity (remake of JY's novel with Jackie Lui and Fiona Leung as the leads)...both Wong Wai as well as Chan Hung Lit are in the series, plus majority of the green leaf artists in the above list...I'll probably post more about this later, but just thought it was interesting, especially since the article mentioned a few of the green leaf artists' "representative work" being that particular series...

  5. The only 2000s generation that I notice based on acting potential are Bosco Wong and Wallace Huo. The other have either no charisma or textbook acting.

    The new generation that I recently liked are Him Law and Vincent Wong. The others have to prove themselves more.

    1. There are no females from year 2000s worth mentioning. Maybe Tang Wei but she's in movies and is from China.

    2. I used to like Lam Fung a lot but now he's boring and his transition to movies isn't successful yet. I used to dislike Bosco and his immature little boy characters but the mature phases now starting last year suits him.

    3. @Anonymous: about Lam Fung, i used to like him before and still now but not that much, like i said maybe cuz of his crappy roles recently. the thing is he tried too hard to master all three areas at once, singing, movies, and television. the problem is he used to have potential but he wasn't exactly stable in his television acting career yet, now he tried to do too many things at once, turn out that he's kinda mess up right now. bosco wong is better now w/ the mature image, but for me he just lost all that charisma and his acting is more like textbook for me these days.

    4. No kk, Bosco Wong's acting is better with more charisma and more characterized deep acting now when he stopped taking those useless and immature roles. I start to open my eyes for him from lives of omission last year and huhuaweiqiing this year.

      I liked Raymond a lot in his dramas until he started to become a singer and his acting lost characterization and I keep seeing Chok Fung onscreen. Now I still have some liking for him but he's bored for years. I read somewhere that his new series Thunder Crime will give him a fully fleshed character. I hope it brings back his characterized acting.

      Textbook and exaggerated acting are what I found in Kenneth Ma and Moses Chan.

    5. Hong Kong really have no prominent face now. After Cecilia Cheung's downfall and become box office poison, no other girl ever graced the silver screen and become Hong Kong superstar. MHK used to produced movie queens Anita Yuen, Maggie Cheung but now only produced gwing face who act like a maniac. Now movie heroines all come from Taiwan and China! Tang Wei and Kao Yuan Yuan are great

    6. Also don't forget nowdays for better marketability many movies choose to have one mainland actor and one HK actor. Since most of the HK male actors are stronger than often the female lead will be someone outside of HK like Mainland or Taiwan. Also many actresses will stay at TVB long time before ventures outside. Not many will take the risk like Michelle Ye and even then she only won best supporting actress in movie awards. TVB gave Kate Tsui chances to act in some movies and she seems to have the talent for that. Not every tv actor has the talent to film movies. I feel both Kate and Bosco has that talent to adapt to film movies. I remember Eric Tsang being quite fond of Bosco in pursuing movies. Some how Kenneth Ma's acting used to be more natural to me, nowadays he seems to lack charm and his acting seems generic. When I see Kenneth I feel like he's acting and not immersed in his roles.

      Actually I'm surprised I like Him's acting, he was first known to have a great figure but when I saw him in SDU drama he did very well, I felt he was very natural. I also like Vincent Wong but he hasn't gotten much promotion by TVB yet. But still out of the newer upcoming generation I like Matt Yeung the most he's come a long way as an actor and has shown to have versatility can be both honest, rebellious, boy next door, or hot tempered.

      Of course my favorite actor will always be Ruco Chan, he can make his characters believable no matter if it's a villain, shy guy, or good person. Sadly I'm not too fond of the roles TVB's been giving him, the image are too similar and what's with the continous suit and glasses image? He's not Kenneth Chan/Lawrence Ng no.2 !!

    7. @sport3888 & Anonymous: I also agree that there are very few HK actresses nowadays who can hold down the fort in the film industry. Most of the 'big' movie actresses I can think of nowadays are all veterans, which of course is harder to 'pair up' with most of the HK actors -- in addition to the 'marketability' piece that you mentioned, this is probably another reason why many of the HK producers and directors have to look to Mainland and Taiwan for younger actresses to collaborate with. Unfortunately, doesn't look like this is going to change any time soon, since TVB is a 'safe haven' for most artists -- plus they are already lacking fa dans themselves, so they probably can't afford to give up anyone else to the film industry (though technically, TVB has a huge stake in the film industry as well with the whole reinstating of the Shaw Brothers movie enterprise after so many years).

      Amongst the current crop of younger HK TV actresses, I really can't think of too many who would be able to compete with the Mainland and Taiwan actresses in the HK movie's kind of sad, but it's reality unfortunately.

      As for the Males -- if I had to pick between the 'S4' crowd (Raymond, Bosco, Kenneth, Sammul, Ron) in terms of acting potential, I would probably pick Bosco, mostly because he's proven to me with his recent roles that he has the talent and skill to play more mature, versatile roles and still be convincing. I sort of feel that TVB did him a dis-service by putting him in the same 'boyish' roles over and over again because he got way too typecasted into those roles...but then again, that's what TVB does to all of their artists -- that's one of the big reasons why most of the artists leave (cuz their careers become stagnant after playing the same types of roles year after year after year). In terms of Kenneth -- I like Kenneth alot and enjoy most of his performances -- plus I feel he has good acting potential, especially with the roles he's had the past few years, however compared to Bosco, Kenneth just doesn't have that 'potential movie star' quality about him, whereas I feel Bosco does. I think how 'successful' Kenneth will or won't become in terms of his career will really depend upon what types of roles TVB gives him in the coming years -- hopefully the roles will be ones where he can develop his acting skills more rather than going the 'textbook' route. Oh and I sincerely hope that they don't push Kenneth down the Moses Chan route -- I don't want to get to the point where I can't even bear to watch him on screen anymore, even if his role is good and has potential (it's the way I feel about Moses currently....)

      In terms of 'younger' generation (though technically they're not really 'young' cuz they've been in the industry a number of years already), definitely Him Law, Vincent Wong, and Oscar Leung have the most acting potential in my opinion....with the right guidance, I think they can really get to the siu sang level and make a pretty significant impact. But of course, it also depends on what TVB ends up doing with their careers (though for Him Law, since he's not a TVB managed artist, he may have a bit more control of his career path).

  6. I love the comments about the taxi driver :)